Francesco Andreoli: Hey, Jerry! Here, Gary.
Francesco Andreoli: how are you?
Jiri Peinlich: Meetings, greetings, greeting, holiday greetings.
Francesco Andreoli: I think we were before in the call.
Francesco Andreoli: like kind of core that's unpacked and met with also there. So I guess we can wait a couple of minutes.
Francesco Andreoli: I think, was was writing it up.
Jiri Peinlich: Some of the people are a panel call 4, 8, 4, 4.
Francesco Andreoli: Oh, really! When when is this ending
Jiri Peinlich: in half an hour
Francesco Andreoli: for enough an hour.
Francesco Andreoli: do we wanna
Francesco Andreoli: Do you want to push it? I don't see, like we have a fat agenda like today. We can also push it in 30 min.
Jiri Peinlich: Oh, Mr.
Francesco Andreoli: Mr. Justin was supposed to be the call, so maybe it's gone.
Francesco Andreoli: maybe it's a duplicate of Justin.
Justin Florentine: I am here. This ended at the perfect time. So I i'm not too late.
Francesco Andreoli: Nice nice
Francesco Andreoli: we're saying also. Matt was on on another call on now.
Francesco Andreoli: but I guess we can
Francesco Andreoli: get it started.
Diego López León: Nice! How are you.
Gary Schulte: hey? There you go!
Justin Florentine: He was out of here.
Diego López León: A good here is everything is crazy here because of the world, Cap.
Francesco Andreoli: Oh, you're in Argentina.
Diego López León: Yeah.
Diego López León: Hmm.
Diego López León: Thank you.
Justin Florentine: That's awesome. Have fun. Stay safe, but not necessarily in that order.
Francesco Andreoli: Are we still waiting there?
Francesco Andreoli: I guess we can get get it started.
Francesco Andreoli: We still know if fab or
Francesco Andreoli: make far, whether they are coming or
Francesco Andreoli: we can just get it started.
Justin Florentine: Yeah, we can get started. I'll see if we can get them out of band.
Gary Schulte: Yeah, Matt said. To start without him.
Okay.
that's good
Francesco Andreoli: at this
Francesco Andreoli: cool. So welcome everybody to our is a contributor to a call
Francesco Andreoli: the last of the year 20 December. Specifically housekeeping notes is the on to address notice. Anything is being recorded.
Francesco Andreoli: And
Francesco Andreoli: please mute, and unless speaking, and if you have any question with your end
Francesco Andreoli: features.
Francesco Andreoli: so I think we can get it started. I think, like this was a I update on Matt. I don't know if anybody has a anything that to say on this update.
Francesco Andreoli: What's this cost?
Justin Florentine: Well, we are currently in a holding pattern. As far as Ci is concerned. Consensus has contributed some funding, and provided a corporate card. the payment should keep us in credits
Justin Florentine: just through the end of the month.
Justin Florentine: It's going to be tight.
Justin Florentine: and then after that we are unknown. So we bought ourselves a little bit of breathing room, but not a ton. A decision really needs to be made as far as how this is going to proceed. as far as we know, from Hyper Ledger.
Justin Florentine: They are not planning on paying for circle. Ci
Justin Florentine: and
Justin Florentine: we are unclear. As to next steps.
Francesco Andreoli: Is there someone on lead on this, or what are the next steps for? January or
Justin Florentine: so? Conversations have been ongoing between Csi and Hyper Ledger.
Justin Florentine: Matt is well versed, and where those conversations are. I believe Hart is also been on the Hyper Ledger side of that conversation, so he should know where that is. As well.
Justin Florentine: that's that's about all I know.
Gary Schulte: Yeah, Matt said that he would probably be able to join this call just 15 min late, so maybe we could just get a status update from him when he joins.
Francesco Andreoli: Sounds good. Sounds good.
Francesco Andreoli: I would say. Let's move forward, for now, so Vco issues
Francesco Andreoli: I can take it on the
Francesco Andreoli: roll this up, or
Francesco Andreoli: it of action. It's a for and broken down since July.
Gary Schulte: Do we know who added the Dco. Item.
Gary Schulte: I hadn't noticed that it's been broken.
Francesco Andreoli: Good question.
Justin Florentine: I think that was the Australian team.
Justin Florentine: I know that at least Simon and Sally have made reference to it recently.
Justin Florentine: and I believe in the discord somewhere. Simon posted a explanation as to how to fix it.
Justin Florentine: I don't know about the underlying cost, though if Dco is no longer being checked by Circle ci. But instead is being handled by Github actions.
Justin Florentine: and that's not configured correctly.
Justin Florentine: we will need somebody from Hyper Ledger to weigh in on that since.
Justin Florentine: Well, I don't know if that's true. Let me check to see what kind of control we have over the github actions. we might be able to fix that ourselves.
Justin Florentine: I think the problem was it just wasn't running the check
Justin Florentine: on on main. It was running out on pull. Requests opened into main, but not on main itself.
Justin Florentine: That doesn't quite answer the question as to how
Justin Florentine: a commit that wasn't signed off via Dco. Got on main without pull request, so definitely needs to be investigated.
Diego López León: Maybe the the merge commit.
Justin Florentine: Yeah.
Justin Florentine: that would be a common phenomenon. Yeah.
Matt Nelson: Did they have anything to do with circle like totally dying for like a week?
No.
Matt Nelson: no. Okay.
Francesco Andreoli: Okay. Now that you met your back well done with all the call. we're speaking about the Ci. Update that on December we have the credit card details, but I don't know you have more details on the next steps from January on.
Matt Nelson: Yeah, I mean it's a little bit of a hairy situation.
Matt Nelson: for transparency's sake. Essentially, Hyper Ledger has asked consensus to pay for the ci for the time being.
Matt Nelson: consensus has to
Matt Nelson: figure out what that actually looks like before we commit what is likely to be 10 to $15,000
Matt Nelson: until withdrawals are enabled.
Matt Nelson: So we're still in discussions with Hyper ledger foundation.
Matt Nelson: So I I don't really have any more to updates to provide. My My anticipation is that we won't run out of credits before everyone leaves kind of before the end of the year. We will likely try to get a resolution in place before everyone returns, if we can
Matt Nelson: at the beginning of January.
Matt Nelson: But I don't know it's
Matt Nelson: a little tough to say, because I don't know what consensus finance is. I don't know what consensus is. Finance Department will say, and I don't know how Hyper Ledger
Matt Nelson: foundation will respond. But the good news of the situation is that after withdrawals are enabled, we have a plan in place to go straight to using the validator funds
Matt Nelson: to pay for stuff.
Matt Nelson: so
Matt Nelson: i'm working with I'm: i'm trying to basically force them to start setting that up now, because I have a feeling that as a nonprofit it'll take them a long time to figure out the accounting.
Matt Nelson: So we're hoping that by withdrawal once withdrawals are enabled, we immediately will have a solution.
Matt Nelson: We might want to look into ways to reduce
Matt Nelson: ci costs and usage in the short term, but at the same time it's like that's dev effort. So I don't really know like it's a hard thing to justify spending time on when we have other pressing priorities.
Matt Nelson: But the update is, in short, that we're being asked to pay consensus has to kind of figure out what that means for us, and whether we want to pay all of it. Or if we kind of try to find a way to maybe use our own invalidator funds.
Matt Nelson: Tbd: just kind of a
Matt Nelson: mess of a situation, and and we're working to figure it out as fast as possible. But Hyper Ledger has kind of punted it to
Matt Nelson: consensus. So we're
Matt Nelson: i'm going to try to sort it out and see
Matt Nelson: but that's that's kind of it. Unfortunately for now
Francesco Andreoli: cool any question on this
or
Gary Schulte: I have a quick question if we need. If we get into a spot where we don't have ci credits, and we have something like a release coming up. Do we have a mitigation plan that we can
Gary Schulte: like quickly add funds? Or is it just that we're
Gary Schulte: gonna have to be reactive about that?
Matt Nelson: I have a meeting to discuss later with, like the
Matt Nelson: some internal people.
Matt Nelson: i'm going to try to get that in place. It's probably going to be similar last time, or we just kind of load up the Ci like on an emergency basis. It's a super crappy situation, and, like I completely am aware that this is hard for the developers and the contributors.
Matt Nelson: and i'm fully aware that it's just like not a great situation.
Matt Nelson: But again, like I I have to see what I have to see what I can do with our internal controls, because I I don't know the extent of what we're able to provide, and
Matt Nelson: we'll just have to see. I I have a feeling that we won't like. Let this development process just kind of die, because that just doesn't make any sense. and we have a lot of hard work coming up with
Matt Nelson: the January stuff and the in the hard forks. So
Matt Nelson: i'm presuming we'll have it solved quickly.
Matt Nelson: But yeah, as to that, Gary, i'll have to follow up with you separately. I i'm talking to a bunch of people later today.
Matt Nelson: in response to emails we received from Hyper Ledger today. So
Matt Nelson: we will
Matt Nelson: like on a publicly recorded call, like, I don't know how much else I need. I can discuss like, need to discuss, cause I don't have any answers right now. I'll have mortgage. I'll share more as I get updates in the basic contributors channel.
Matt Nelson: but that's about it, and we still have a little bit of credits for now.
Matt Nelson: i'm hoping it lasts us through the end of the week, so we can prep the release.
Matt Nelson: and then just release it.
Matt Nelson: as opposed to having to need to do a bunch of ci shenanigans. But I will
Matt Nelson: try to get a mitigation plan in place.
Gary Schulte: Cool thanks.
Francesco Andreoli: That's good. so we mentioned about Theco issues where release updates. There is no update right
Francesco Andreoli: on that.
Matt Nelson: Gary. You want to give a breakdown of what we're thinking for the next Wednesday.
Gary Schulte: Yeah. So we're still planning to work on the the the new schedule. it's still, I guess, proposed that we're gonna cut a release several days in advance of the actual release. So we will we're planning to cut artifacts for 23
Gary Schulte: that one dot one dot 1 0 beta on Friday, as well as a 2214 on Friday. So those artifacts will burn in over the weekend will make sure that the
Gary Schulte: their release quality by the
Gary Schulte: in the next Wednesday, which is the 20 eighth, which is what's actually currently scheduled for the release.
Gary Schulte: And I think most people will be on vacation at that time. But if we
Gary Schulte: we have everything cut and ready to go, it should be pretty lightweight to do the release on the 20 eighth, assuming that there is No, no, nothing discovered with the canary nodes of the burning.
Gary Schulte: So that's that's the current plan is to do both
Gary Schulte: 23, 1 0 beta, and 2214 on
Gary Schulte: release artifacts on Friday.
Francesco Andreoli: That's good.
Francesco Andreoli: Any question on that.
Francesco Andreoli: Oh, see there!
Matt Nelson: Do we have any? Also?
Matt Nelson: Input on the release process from Non csi folks, Diego, do you? Have you had a chance to review any of those proposals
Matt Nelson: that we've put up?
Diego López León: No, no, no, not really enough to have an opinion yet.
Matt Nelson: Okay.
Matt Nelson: that's no problem. I don't think we'll need to update the release, like I don't think we'll need to agree on any proposal this year, anyway. but maybe in January just
Matt Nelson: quick Read would be nice. Just so that we can. At least
Matt Nelson: I know there's like disagreement either way, among different folks. But your comments would be helpful, especially since you're
Matt Nelson: neither Csi nor Dan. So it would be great to have your input.
Diego López León: Okay? Okay.
Gary Schulte: Yeah, I I think
Gary Schulte: my understanding is that we there's not a lot of contention right now with what the current
Gary Schulte: you know kind of preview
Gary Schulte: cut off and burn in release processes
Gary Schulte: feel free to correct me if i'm wrong. But I think that we have some general consensus that that's an acceptable release process so far.
Matt Nelson: Yeah. So to recap we basic to recap, I think that the burn in like the Friday caught off process stuff. There's 2 kind of documents circulating. Essentially, we're
Matt Nelson: to. I don't know if you've read any of it. But to summarize the the first one is that we are basically choosing specific commits to cut as the release the Friday prior to Wednesday releases, so that we can have sufficient time to test it and sync nodes and do whatever we need to do. so I think that basically the the process we outlined is that
Matt Nelson: all the contributors that need to have stuff in
Matt Nelson: before that Friday cut off just like ping in the Channel, and the Release Coordinator will pull it all in and use the right
Matt Nelson: You know we'll use the right point in time snapshot to cut the release, so essentially it pulls the window up a few days, so is if you have code that you need to get into the release. just make sure the contributors know before the weekend of the release so that the release coordinator can pull in the right stuff.
Matt Nelson: Yeah, that's the only change. And then we have a process
Matt Nelson: to, you know, kind of evaluate the burn in and see if it needs to delay the release.
Matt Nelson: but that's kind of the second part. The other proposal that's flying around is the process to scuttle or delay a release which is one the one that requires more sufficient input and and time to bake. But I don't think that. Yeah, so that there's those kind of the 2 documents, and they're They're on the Wiki: but
Matt Nelson: but yeah, to summarize, that's that's what we're looking at, as far as changes. I think the first change around Vernon has been fully
Matt Nelson: vetted, and people don't seem to have an issue, but that's just, I guess, a reminder to either provide input or provide your commits
Matt Nelson: by Friday, so that we can not not necessarily this Friday, but the Friday before release in general, so that we can get everything and lined up
Gary Schulte: Actually, one more thing for this particular release. The tentatively the 22 ten-four is a cherry pick release. So if you have something that you want to get in to the 22.10 line
Gary Schulte: i'll i'll re- push this into discord so that we can have that discussion there. But currently I think there's only one Pr. That was discussed to have in the cherry pick. So after something you want to get in a 2210 line add that to the basic release channel
Gary Schulte: on discord, and the 23, 1 0 beta will be coming directly from Main
Francesco Andreoli: cool.
Francesco Andreoli: So it's good. so let's move to the working updates.
Francesco Andreoli: So Shanghai planning.
Francesco Andreoli: I guess, Matt, you put it in right, for the withdraw is there, by the way,
Francesco Andreoli: timings or the When do we go with the enabled?
Matt Nelson: Yeah. So I can let Yeri talk about withdrawals, and then maybe Diego or Justin can give us an update on Ef: but
Matt Nelson: yeah, I mean, the withdrawal is still targeted for that same kind of like Q. 2 timeframe. So probably around March.
Matt Nelson: That's basically it, right? It. It really depends on how the interoperability testing goes. but maybe eerie has another update for everyone else.
Jiri Peinlich: Yes, so for withdrawals.
Jiri Peinlich: there is a branch that Mr. Simon, with Mr. J. Some
Jiri Peinlich: built that we are now running on
Jiri Peinlich: on the.
Jiri Peinlich: That's not Flora
Jiri Peinlich: for
Jiri Peinlich: withdrawals. So this is, I think, already they are preparing for it to already lunch. So like a public test, not for withdrawal that public will be able to join.
Jiri Peinlich: So we provided them with the build that the vessel has a system, if support for with rules. They are like, I think, 2 main problems that were identified Did I remember which one of them was
Jiri Peinlich: when we started thinking the backwards sync didn't properly sing with the rest of the network. So it's one thing we need to look at, and second thing with some strange outputs
Jiri Peinlich: related to
Jiri Peinlich: it also didn't, but the neither of those eventually
Jiri Peinlich: block tasks from completely syncing in the end. So the back for a single one was a resolved by a removing data by C you from scratch
Jiri Peinlich: and everything sync properly, and the other
Jiri Peinlich: messaging just to be
Jiri Peinlich: cosmetic issue. But like we didn't look into that yet, I think.
Jiri Peinlich: Mr. Jason and Mr. Simon are working hard to match the branch eventually before the dependencies into main.
Jiri Peinlich: And yeah, if there is a problem with the testing from the Ef.
Jiri Peinlich: because Mr. Barnabas is working on it during my time zone, so i'm available in case there will be something to discuss
Jiri Peinlich: That's basically the withdrawal status right now.
Jiri Peinlich: So I think, is it from overall? We are ready for this through us, more or less.
Jiri Peinlich: Yeah.
Jiri Peinlich: Sorry to me. I don't know if there are any questions or something.
Jiri Peinlich: Oh, oh, nobody's speaking something else.
Jiri Peinlich: Oh, this is good.
Justin Florentine: All I've done for you is review other people's work, so I mean it's the Diego show as far as I know you've been killing it, Buddy. You got anything you want to add for you.
Diego López León: yeah, Well, for us, I think we are in pretty good shape.
Diego López León: right now.
Diego López León: I just review I think you, too, just in we just review
Diego López León: or
Diego López León: left, right f jump F.
Diego López León: So I think it's being marked today, and the only one is still pending is 54, 50. It's all the stabilization. So we are negotiating there.
Diego López León: I i'm not quite sure if there will be any specific test, not for for ef yet
Diego López León: I don't know if the withdrawal of one will include
Diego López León: any of this work.
Jiri Peinlich: I think, on the last or court. That's the discussion when towards the direction that
Jiri Peinlich: Hmm
Jiri Peinlich: We still a lot of people want us to be part of the Shanghai, but it's not yet completely decided. It's gonna happen. And at the first week of January, all the clients will confirm that they are capable of merging us into their that they have done basically with the development, the
Jiri Peinlich: overall. This thing can start, and then they will decide. And if it goes to Shanghai it'll be decided only in January. That's my understanding for me. All contacts
Diego López León: yeah makes sense. They probably don't want to.
Diego López León: it's been up a another test that we are not sure if it's going to be part of it.
Jiri Peinlich: I think there was only one person who was strongly against including this.
Jiri Peinlich: Oh, I think Downlook, or what is his name? I don't know exactly what is his name.
Jiri Peinlich: but that was the only person
Jiri Peinlich: it it seemed like. Everybody else was strongly for including it as well.
Jiri Peinlich: Also for Shanghai. If anybody is listening to this, we also have a new
Jiri Peinlich: discord channel
Jiri Peinlich: for Shanghai. And
Jiri Peinlich: yeah.
Jiri Peinlich: so that we can discuss this things in more detail, anyways.
Jiri Peinlich: yeah, I i'm sorry. I always say too much.
Gary Schulte: That's a a discord. It's on the hyper ledger discord in one of the
Gary Schulte: on the conversation threads. What was the there's a new conversation threading model, right?
Jiri Peinlich: Yeah. We created the one channel for each of the upcoming forks, and I think it sounds nice, because also with the idea, Mr. Ramad, we've always having some
Jiri Peinlich: last fork in in our go.
Jiri Peinlich: Now, you guys, that we can discuss all the
Jiri Peinlich: I'm just trying to be active on this course. Sorry guys. Sorry guys go.
Matt Nelson: I think we can
Matt Nelson: jump to this kind of like roadmap stuff
Matt Nelson: for you know
Matt Nelson: Q. One don't click that link. I don't think it leads to anything useful for you one. I like it's been kind of
Matt Nelson: a lot of this work like around actual road. Mapping has been on the back burner in favor of just like shoring up the client from proof of sake and from the merge.
Matt Nelson: but we will be kind of hitting the rock ground running around a lot of like
Matt Nelson: planning and strategy stuff in quarter one, so i'll have more to share.
Matt Nelson: then, for feedback, and see if anyone has agreement or disagreement.
Matt Nelson: but you know, I think the key focus is going to be around fixing some of the
Matt Nelson: kind of outstanding
Matt Nelson: challenges in the code base with a pain and complexity around different use cases. So whether that means kind of like small medium or large flavor of kind, of a modular code, base or something different, it.
Matt Nelson: You know we we have to kind of discuss, but that's I think, what our key focus will be alongside prioritizing hard forks in the short term.
Matt Nelson: and just kind of that resolution of tech at around the the code base that I think will be
Matt Nelson: awesome for a bunch of people. But we Haven't kicked that off in earnest, yet
Matt Nelson: in terms of planning, so nothing too much to share there.
Matt Nelson: but there's a lot of other discussion around the roadmap
Matt Nelson: as far as like privacy, features, and things that are going on. so just like feel free to ping me if you if there are questions
Matt Nelson: around kind of what anyone is thinking. I can only really speak for consensus, but at the same time.
Matt Nelson: you know
Matt Nelson: this like the that's kind of the where the direction we're moving towards is trying to make things easier around supporting the multiple use cases as opposed to more difficult, so it will take some lift to get there, and we we definitely want input from people maintaining different use cases.
Matt Nelson: what that actually means. And if you have, you know design and implementation details as we have more of the process kind of filtered and and actually created around scoping, we'll definitely be seeking input on proposals in the hyper ledger
Matt Nelson: channels. So
Matt Nelson: that's kind of the roadmap for now, Still focusing on performance and stability for a little while
Francesco Andreoli: how people will give feedback, Matt. like the proposal symbols.
Matt Nelson: Well, I don't think we need to review the metrics because
Matt Nelson: it's a holiday almost doesn't it anymore.
Matt Nelson: topics that they want to discuss.
Gary Schulte: I'm happy holidays.
Francesco Andreoli: Okay, All the days guys
Francesco Andreoli: next year.
Matt Nelson: Cool anything else.
Matt Nelson: No more
Matt Nelson: alright. Cool. Thanks. Everyone.
Diego López León: Thanks. Everybody.
Francesco Andreoli: Nice to see you.