Francesco Andreoli: Hey, Jerry! Hey? Justin! Hey, Matt?
Jiri Peinlich: Hello, Jessica! Good to see you,
Justin Florentine: Hey, Matt?
Justin Florentine: Hey, You
Jiri Peinlich: Hello, Mr.
Francesco Andreoli: When it's easier like we came out.
Francesco Andreoli: I think my pronunciation that
Jiri Peinlich: no worries
Francesco Andreoli: cool. I think. Um,
Matt Nelson: I don't think anyone's going to join besides us.
Francesco Andreoli: Let me just
Francesco Andreoli: sure
Francesco Andreoli: link. I'm sure these so we can go through like, Have you on having um
Francesco Andreoli: any? A quick call with updates,
Francesco Andreoli: You guys see my screen?
Yep,
Ameziane Hamlat: how you everyone,
Francesco Andreoli: hey? Everyone.
Francesco Andreoli: I'll take some notes. In the meantime,
Matt Nelson: what do we want to discuss? If it's just consensus. We should just
Matt Nelson: drop bail on, because we already know what we're doing.
Justin Florentine: Yeah, no, we should probably have a recording, though, for other folks to catch up on.
Matt Nelson: What? What do they want to discuss
Matt Nelson: the release?
Justin Florentine: Uh I mean, whatever's in the agenda
Matt Nelson: I didn't put anything in there.
Francesco Andreoli: I think we have couple of things there are still from a couple of weeks ago. Uh the Ci you were under met. Yeah, maybe we could do an update about the Ci for the recording um. We can talk about
Matt Nelson: the release, and we could talk about Shanghai quick, and then, if no one else joins, we can just leave it at that and call it a short one.
Justin Florentine: Sounds good.
Matt Nelson: Uh, we'll give it another minute or two, though.
Matt Nelson: Yes, I, realizing now that I was very sassy in the recording, so
Matt Nelson: Eerie would like to talk about the tendency injection. I think that is a great topic of discussion.
Francesco Andreoli: I agree
Francesco Andreoli: hopefully on uh the J. Right now.
Francesco Andreoli: Cool, I think we can get started.
Francesco Andreoli: Oh, hey, Karen, it's obvious.
Karim T.: I don't know um
Matt Nelson: for the recording anti-trust. Notice
Matt Nelson: you can read it at the link. We are recording the meeting.
Matt Nelson: Yeah, don't
Matt Nelson: violate the antitrust. Notice
Matt Nelson: Why, Don't, we start with the Ci, and
Matt Nelson: so to reiterate circle. We have probably about
Matt Nelson: three more weeks of circle credits. Two to three more weeks of circle credits.
Matt Nelson: Um!
Matt Nelson: So we delayed that we got approval earlier this month for an additional spend of like
Matt Nelson: two thousand five hundred bucks
Matt Nelson: um,
Matt Nelson: so it should last us again until the middle of December. Maybe just, and I can kick it to you for
Matt Nelson: what you've been working on in the state of Ci.
Justin Florentine: So the state of Ci is we have tests running with um.
Justin Florentine: So the bill process is running. I have not um really tried to do anything with the artifacts that is output from it. So there's still a long way to go. Honestly. Um!
Justin Florentine: All the test run except for the acceptance test. I'm currently working on that right now. Um! Everything else runs and passes. Um. The next question we're going to have to answer is, you know. How are we going to manage and do? Permission controls on the actual publishing of the document and of the artifacts?
Justin Florentine: Um docker containers um jar jar files things like that. Uh. So not really sure how that's going to work. Um, I assume we're planning on running exclusively self-hosted runners. Um, if we if we use a mix of self-hosted and Github runners.
Justin Florentine: There are some technical limitations that we're gonna have to work around um a good portion of my time this week so far has been spent sorting out uh file ownership issues that um get reset anytime. You use a docker container
Justin Florentine: um. And so that's kind of a problem. All good portion of our um
Justin Florentine: build actions actually run as docker containers.
Justin Florentine: Um, there's also a little bit of a need to, you know. Kind of have an ops management um concern on the runners. If we're doing self hosted runners ourselves.
Justin Florentine: Um, we're gonna have to do a little bit of work to make sure that they're not filling up disc, because I've already blown through um dangling docker volumes a couple of times. And um, that's
Justin Florentine: caused a lot of problems. So a lot of times it's been spent trying to figure out the right ways to clean up through our Ci process.
Justin Florentine: Um, that's gonna be that's gonna be a concern. I think we can bake most of that into the Ci process itself. But we're definitely gonna have to have some access to the runners um
Justin Florentine: or maintenance,
Justin Florentine: or you know, somebody dedicated to to maintaining that it is that is going to be some infrastructure that's going to need oversight.
Justin Florentine: Um, I think that's about it. The one outstanding question that I have is we have a docker container called Base to build um. I found no source control for that it doesn't seem to exist in the Hyper Ledger Github organization, and there was no clues in Docker Hub as to where it came from.
Justin Florentine: So um i'll, i'll post that and discord to see if anybody can asynchronously help me find where that thing is.
Justin Florentine: Um. So that's where we're at. I think we'll probably be in good shape. But mid December, I think you know I don't see that as a real challenge,
Justin Florentine: so I would say maybe we should start thinking about um the release after uh twenty, two, ten, one being one that is produced with github actions instead of circle. Ci.
Francesco Andreoli: Is there a way. How uh, can I disable the Ci on my branch? You know I need it.
Justin Florentine: Huh!
Justin Florentine: What would be the use case for that?
Justin Florentine: Just like you're pushing aggressively to your remote, and you don't really want to run a build every time. And look, I feel like i'm wasting the minutes.
Justin Florentine: Yeah,
Justin Florentine: Um,
Justin Florentine: it's a good question.
Justin Florentine: No, no, the answer to that.
Karim T.: I'll put that in my notes as a thing to look into.
Justin Florentine: Okay,
Francesco Andreoli: I remember, man,
Justin Florentine: I don't know um. I I don't see any reason why we can't use Java seventeen, so I mean, I think that would probably be the next thing that I work on after the Github actions, and I don't think there's gonna be much work to do there's already A. Pr. That's outstanding for it.
Justin Florentine: So that'll just need to be updated and confirmed that it works. But I don't there there. There was very little in that. Pr. That was problematic, so it should be a very straightforward upgrade. Do you think it would be a small release, or just a
Karim T.: Do we think it's a breaking change, or something like that, because we would force us to change Java version. I don't know
Karim T.: not breaking. But
Justin Florentine: yeah, not just like anybody that's not using a docker container is going to have to update their Java Sdk: Right?
Karim T.: Yeah,
Ameziane Hamlat: Yeah, I think it is a breaking change, actually. Because Um, yeah, if you're on it just by your you're all you have to. You have to up upgrade your Java version, but otherwise we now we can already run this with Java seventeen, so I guess, like The javascript in here is to
Ameziane Hamlat: use Java seventeen features and new features. So it's a brick and change for me,
Jiri Peinlich: so would there be a benefit to have like for one. That is something to both of them
Jiri Peinlich: like both seventeen and whatever eleven
Jiri Peinlich: you can try it out and
Justin Florentine: well,
Justin Florentine: we could.
Karim T.: Maybe we can have.
Justin Florentine: Go ahead.
Karim T.: Maybe we can, as you said, having your release with two version, and seeing it will be deprecated in the next three days, just to
Karim T.: not deprecated, but
Karim T.: we use the
Justin Florentine: That's a lot of work to support a um.
Justin Florentine: Maybe it's not that much work.
Justin Florentine: I I guess we'd have to think about it,
Justin Florentine: because I think the old I mean the old Bill and Tickle Ci was doing it right. We were building both on eleven and latest,
Karim T.: or maybe just asking the disco then,
Jiri Peinlich: or maybe we make it a release of the old version. Then you just switch to version, make another release,
Jiri Peinlich: and the only difference would be the change of the
I don't know.
Justin Florentine: All right. I think that's it for me.
Matt Nelson: You want to talk about dependency injection, you
Jiri Peinlich: where I uh try to replace the current way of how we building all our uh objects uh I place it with uh using spring, just so that I can see how it, how difficult it will be, or whatever so it's not yet fully functional.
Jiri Peinlich: And i'm like a quick kind of over the weekend. So can you do it? I'm a more mostly interested in, uh, with the opinion of uh, the rest of the Maintainer. So on, uh having some time of dependency, injection and spring in particular. I I I like spring personally. That's why i'm doing it in that.
So
Jiri Peinlich: Going to
Justin Florentine: Yeah, I mean, we're We're we're experimenting here right so I don't think there's a need to rule out anything.
Justin Florentine: Um!
Justin Florentine: Well, I don't know maybe it is a non-starter. I don't I don't see it as a nonstarter. I mean, I know that you can strip it down. Excuse me, and you can strip, spring down quite a bit and get to just the dependency injection stuff which I'm assuming that we're doing, I think none of us want to adopt all spring boot and all of its tendrils that go everywhere and pull all kinds of stuff in
Justin Florentine: um.
Justin Florentine: I think we also want to look at dagger. So um!
Justin Florentine: The work you're doing is definitely valuable,
Justin Florentine: and giving us one form of protocol that we could compare to using dagger as well.
Justin Florentine: Um,
Justin Florentine: so I mean the Tldr for me is like it's an experiment. If you have the time to work on it, then you know, we should try to learn from that experiment.
I mean.
Jiri Peinlich: Well, Mr. Dunno was highlighting uh
Jiri Peinlich: that there might be both potential objections from somebody so
end up officially.
Jiri Peinlich: So did everybody say that
Jiri Peinlich: the current implementation doesn't?
Jiri Peinlich: I don't want to take it up
Jiri Peinlich: into basso current code base.
Justin Florentine: So I don't know a ton about
Justin Florentine: dagger, but from what I did before is, I don't think it would. It's not going to work the same way that spring does where
Justin Florentine: spring wires things up at runtime, and you can point it to the interfaces and implications for it to use, which is what you're leveraging
Justin Florentine: in order to have a dependency injection version of Basu outside of the basic code. Base
Justin Florentine: dagger is all compile time.
Justin Florentine: Um! So i'm not sure that that will actually be possible.
Justin Florentine: Maybe it will.
Jiri Peinlich: So then, then, there's a question how much you for dependencies you want to bring into,
Jiri Peinlich: but other less than more. But yeah, I don't know how to do it otherwise. Then in the way that i'm doing it right now.
Justin Florentine: So that's a nice segue into potentially thinking about um packaging alternatives. I guess the answer to your question would be like, What are the
Justin Florentine: what are the dimensions that we plan on um changing for different package versions of basis. So, for instance, if we want to have a private permissioned
Justin Florentine: variant of they su. Then, you know, that goes to data storage, and maybe some of the um
Justin Florentine: transaction processing right? Those would be differences for a private networks
Karim T.: um, and there's so consolidation, maybe.
Justin Florentine: Uh-huh. Yeah.
Justin Florentine: And I think if we look at the roadmap um
Justin Florentine: Dan I kind of had um a document. I had a child document on there that starts to outline
Justin Florentine: W. What are these different concerns? And how do we think of them? Are they?
Justin Florentine: Um, you know ethereum concerns uh things like P. Twop: networking consensus uh
um,
Justin Florentine: All the crypto type things the Evm itself.
Justin Florentine: Um, Or are they just general software, concerns, like you know, logging, security, observability, et cetera.
Um,
Justin Florentine: So those may.
Justin Florentine: Those different dimensions may help answer your your question, Your
Justin Florentine: Does that make sense?
Jiri Peinlich: It's It's nice. I think. Uh,
Jiri Peinlich: maybe we talk about it again. When Mr. Dunn will be available. You he will be probably having some inputs,
Karim T.: mostly to put it on the recording, I think. And do we want to have a a public channel on this code to discuss about only modularization? How we will, what kind of module we want to create something that just to not uh
Karim T.: to not just add a lot of message on the other channel, and having only one channel that I don't know, but I don't know I I would just do it in basic contributors myself, and if it gets too noisy, then
Karim T.: you know, either start threads or or talk about a a private ch, or not a private, but a different channel. Uh yeah, I think it's It's better, not private, not private, but another channel, because with the all our messages in the basic contributor, it's complex to retrieve a specific message just related to modularization or something like that.
Karim T.: If you have a specific channel, we can follow the thread uh
Karim T.: and and
Justin Florentine: okay. So i'm not quite sure what the permissions on discord are like, but I feel like all of us that are Maintainer should be able to create um.
Karim T.: Maybe
Justin Florentine: i'll try it. Alright. Well, something to something to discuss. Now.
Justin Florentine: Yeah, I I have a button that says, create channel.
Matt Nelson: I think we should wait to discuss to. Uh, I'm not going to push it. Yeah,
Matt Nelson: Um,
Matt Nelson: yeah, do. We should we talk about the release? I think we should stick to the original? Well, the revised timeline of the thirtieth of November?
Matt Nelson: Um.
Matt Nelson: I. A week from tomorrow, a week from today or week from tomorrow.
Matt Nelson: I don't think we should push it back up to tomorrow unless there's I know there was discussion around the twenty stuff
Matt Nelson: and some of the other things there.
Justin Florentine: Yeah, I'm not sure if what we have so far for too many is sufficient to solve the issue that it presents
Matt Nelson: like legacy versioning stuff that Dana was bringing up, which makes sense
Matt Nelson: uh right
Matt Nelson: like. Would we need a back patch?
Matt Nelson: It's probably
Matt Nelson: there to assume that we should create one,
Matt Nelson: or like who should be responsible to create that. My guess is that
Matt Nelson: private networks are not running latest. They're probably on twenty, two, four, or twenty, two, seven
Matt Nelson: um!
Matt Nelson: So we should figure that out. What that looks like
Matt Nelson: if I recall correctly. Palm was like
Matt Nelson: kind of static on like twenty, two, seven, three, or four,
Matt Nelson: and some of these old networks. Uh, we're not old rather, but existing like big prod networks, are definitely not taking our latest changes. So we just need to
Matt Nelson: work on who shouldn't
Matt Nelson: communicate all those out, and
Matt Nelson: work on like How like would we re-release the back port like that. I don't even know what the process would look like. I'm guessing you just rebuild from
Matt Nelson: that release target, and you include the new twenty dependency.
Matt Nelson: So that's Is it that simple?
Justin Florentine: I'm. I'm. Not sure. I think, that there in the past we've also gone in and removed artifacts from distribution? As well. I don't. I don't know if this is that type of situation.
Matt Nelson: Yeah. The problem is, we don't know
Matt Nelson: we don't know what version everyone is running,
Matt Nelson: and
Matt Nelson: there's no like single point of contact for those people to reach out
Matt Nelson: to us.
Matt Nelson: Maybe we should put out a message like
Matt Nelson: I don't know this is a publicly recorded call, right like, How do we
Matt Nelson: want to handle these kinds of security concerns in the future?
Matt Nelson: Um,
Matt Nelson: like? Is there a central repository of these private networks,
Matt Nelson: because if there is, I haven't seen one um, and who should kind of own that communication, I don't necessarily think it should be me or our team, but
Matt Nelson: we should think it through.
Matt Nelson: Um,
Matt Nelson: I guess I can write an email to to Rye and heart and and come up with a plan. I think that that's the
Matt Nelson: easiest way in the short term that
Matt Nelson: should not derail stuff and keep you guys focused.
Matt Nelson: But to your point. If we if we don't have a patch ready for too many, anyway. Then it doesn't really it's kind of a moot point until next week. So we don't have to stress about it for for the release of two thousand and ten. One
Matt Nelson: um.
Matt Nelson: So should I presume that we're not in a cherry pick, and we're going to build for main
Matt Nelson: after we resolve some of the issues and regressions that we've identified.
Justin Florentine: I think we should. Um.
Justin Florentine: I think I may have a different Gary may have a different opinion, though.
Matt Nelson: Yeah, I mean, I think we if we're taking an extra week, two weeks, we should be able to get main in a good place, and we should stop pushing news, new features, and focus on fixing what's in flight
Matt Nelson: like, stop pushing changes essentially, and just focus on what we have for the next two weeks,
Matt Nelson: but I don't know so cream. I know you had some stuff that you were working
Matt Nelson: around. Fix these fixes with a museum that we should definitely not rush out the door for tomorrow.
Karim T.: No,
Karim T.: it it will not. I don't think it will be ready for tomorrow. So yeah,
Karim T.: yeah. So next Wednesday is eight days. I think we have. Yeah.
Matt Nelson: So there's been no push back about this date.
Matt Nelson: I don't think that Antoine would push back to said he can have some extra time to test everything. Um! So I think we can just consider it scheduled for the thirtieth and
Matt Nelson: move on
Matt Nelson: um next agenda item is the charter discussions. This is more for the recording. But
Matt Nelson: um, you know more product strategy and road mapping to share. I know that
Matt Nelson: we, as a basic community, and you know,
Matt Nelson: have been lax and kind of updating some of those roadmap materials. So it's
Matt Nelson: as the dust settles, continues to settle from the merge, we should have more information. Um! I personally have been working on this with
Matt Nelson: the group and getting feedback, and we'll have a proposal to share for the Hyper Ledger community
Matt Nelson: uh on kind of where we see
Matt Nelson: moving over the next year so hopefully that' alleviate some of the roadmap stuff um, but nothing to share as far as actual document. Yet. Um expect that maybe
Matt Nelson: December
Matt Nelson: um, and we'll have something to share
Matt Nelson: and get feedback as a proposal so
Matt Nelson: hopefully by the end of the year we can have a more concrete roadmap
Matt Nelson: to share with the external contributors for contributors, external people that are not contributors, and just the community at large.
Matt Nelson: That's all there is on the charter
Matt Nelson: um. Shanghai planning,
Matt Nelson: continues:
Matt Nelson: I don't really think we need to discuss it much. The documents kind of good, and Dan is
Matt Nelson: the only other person really working on it
Matt Nelson: besides where Dano and his team.
Matt Nelson: So
Matt Nelson: I think that's fine. I think we can. Does anyone have anything else i'd like to discuss. I think we can take the extra five minutes back.
Justin Florentine: I think we're good,
good,
Francesco Andreoli: awesome Thanks, guys. Thanks. Everyone:
Karim T.: Thanks. Yeah.