Justin Florentine: Francesco.
Francesco Andreoli: Good.
Justin Florentine: yeah.
Francesco Andreoli: Safety return from from from.
France.
Justin Florentine: yeah.
Justin Florentine: palantir Nice.
Justin Florentine: she's connected.
Francesco Andreoli: If braces she's joining.
Justin Florentine: race that's a good question, I do not know.
Gary Schulte: She she asked me this morning about some of the the validator projections.
Gary Schulte: I put together, so I suspect that's because she's planning to be here.
ice.
Francesco Andreoli: Oh hey guys.
Grace Hartley: hey how's it going.
Grace Hartley: How is everyone.
Justin Florentine: You.
Grace Hartley: know.
Grace Hartley: Maybe share my screen.
Grace Hartley: Francesca did you already dropped the agenda in the chat.
Francesco Andreoli: Yes, yes.
Francesco Andreoli: Oh amazing Oh, let me, let me.
Francesco Andreoli: do it again.
Grace Hartley: Oh yeah I.
Think.
Francesco Andreoli: you're.
Grace Hartley: looks like we kind of have.
Grace Hartley: Of course them, at least, so we can get started.
Grace Hartley: It is recording so thank you, whoever did that we're at the May 10th basically tutor call.
Grace Hartley: The antitrust notice, please follow that.
Grace Hartley: everyone's familiar, the meeting is being recorded, please mute or speaking, if you have questions, please use the raise hand feature i'm.
Grace Hartley: jenna so we have kind of a, I think, just to kind of I tried to get rid of maybe during set the stage for today, get rid of a lot of junk head from old agendas and I think we can spend some time if we want the incentive Program.
Grace Hartley: Talk about the releases I think they're to work updates merge, of course, and snap saying and there's kind of some other business down here that I.
Grace Hartley: have also left in, so I think there's quite a bit so just want to.
Grace Hartley: Is there anything I guess like high high urgency that we must hit on this list, so we make sure we don't miss it.
Grace Hartley: Okay, nothing so.
Grace Hartley: Well then, we'll just.
Grace Hartley: starting the job incentive program um so we.
Grace Hartley: I guess there's one new update as of the last, so the final agreements are not employees, but the validators are officially up and running so just wanted to say that I know.
Grace Hartley: heart, this is the document from the hyper ledger side.
Grace Hartley: And now it's just a matter of the legal teams reviewing correct.
Hart Montgomery: grace.
Hart Montgomery: Yes, that is correct, so TIM also asked us to start doing the.
Hart Montgomery: main net maintainer documentation.
Hart Montgomery: I believe you were on that email, as well as Dan oh I don't know if anyone else was.
Hart Montgomery: So.
Danno Ferrin: Obviously being such an email, what was the title of it, and when was it sound.
Hart Montgomery: Let me pull.
Hart Montgomery: it up.
Hart Montgomery: Sorry for the slight delay.
Hart Montgomery: So.
Hart Montgomery: you're correct.
Hart Montgomery: Sorry, it was only grace was on it, but you are not.
Hart Montgomery: Sorry danna.
Danno Ferrin: sounds kind of important.
Hart Montgomery: Yes, actually okay well.
Hart Montgomery: Right, so I don't think it's urgent but TIM wanted us to start setting up the main net maintainer contribution list.
Hart Montgomery: So I was going to ask the Community for suggestions on, you know how they best want to do that in the document I suggest a markdown file, where people can.
Hart Montgomery: link their contributions and briefly say what they are.
Hart Montgomery: So, if anyone has any suggestions on that i'd love to hear them and i'm sure TIM would probably as well.
Justin Florentine: I believe we started tagging lots of issues with the main net tag.
Justin Florentine: In order to help us reason about this problem, so it should be fairly easy for us to go through, and at least gather those and like you said write a synopsis on what each person contributed.
Danno Ferrin: going on.
Justin Florentine: 3D three months or so, since the beginning here, I believe.
Gary Schulte: I think we started doing that in response to the problem of being able to attribute mean that contributions.
Danno Ferrin: and
Danno Ferrin: policy or was there some other coordination those supposed to go along with this.
Grace Hartley: I believe this was communicated but I, I think it might be helpful to take a step back, because there are some new people and some I think some context is important.
Grace Hartley: So i'm going to just give the context I apologize, and then we can go from there, I.
Grace Hartley: need to look at the email from TIM I.
Grace Hartley: didn't read it closely so we can also look at that, in a SEC.
Grace Hartley: So as a part of the incentive program we decided that only mean that maintainer contributions will be included as a part of the.
Grace Hartley: just go to this.
Grace Hartley: As a part of the.
Grace Hartley: eligibility for counting towards being eligible for receiving withdrawal keys, so we decided that there are kind of different tiers of main.
Grace Hartley: Of contribution so if that makes sense.
Grace Hartley: And i'm busy right now try again later no that's not fair, there we go.
Grace Hartley: The head.
Grace Hartley: We had different eligibility for different people, depending on their type of contribution, so there were kind of different I just want to pull it up just so we're like speaking the same thing, so there is.
Grace Hartley: A contributor, who is individual contributor to hyper ledger base who they are not an active maintainer.
Grace Hartley: We can talk about the maintainer process in a minute.
Grace Hartley: They are not directly eligible for any share of the transaction fees.
Grace Hartley: valid words or withdrawal keep just regions in the program then there's a main maintainer who is listening, who is listed as an active maintainer.
Grace Hartley: and whose contributions are focused on the theory and minute development as defined above, so we have just i'm just setting this up, because I just think it's helpful.
Grace Hartley: yeah So this is the theory main part just saying that out loud and then we have.
Grace Hartley: And they are not so they're.
Grace Hartley: eligible for sheriff transaction fees and validated rewards but are not eligible for withdrawal key distributions.
Grace Hartley: main main centers are expected to have at least one substantial contribution to if you remain at 12 and during the vesting period to be eligible for a share of transaction fees and the theory and validated rewards.
Grace Hartley: Then I just like and i'm saying this i'm sorry I just think I want to make sure we're saying the right language here and there's a patron maintainer.
Grace Hartley: was, and this is at the soul requirement.
Grace Hartley: sole discretion of it, yes, of naming, who was a patron require a pitching.
Grace Hartley: maintainer and they're eligible for a share of the transaction fee and validator words.
Grace Hartley: Then there's a picture organization, who is eligible also.
Grace Hartley: For sure the transaction fee so at this point at the start of the program just to be clear consensus and hyper ledger founders are the only let's consider patreon positions now so now just we did that quick reminder, so I think we had previously discussed as a part of the.
Grace Hartley: Work to help us.
Grace Hartley: be able to track like who is doing may network versus who is doing, you know private you know integration with corn work, for example, is a good example of Don main network.
Grace Hartley: We, the one proposal we put forward was.
Grace Hartley: Having a tag to help identify that.
Grace Hartley: In addition, there was also the discussion with TIM to say you know they definitely want it to be a Community driven.
Grace Hartley: initiative for who is raising their hands as basically being qualifying for a meeting maintainer and patron maintainer status so with that data I can go back and look if if.
Grace Hartley: I believe we obsess on the contributor calls of just adding a tag to help you know kind of with organization of it, but the other key was you know, it is also you can raise your own hand it's not necessarily.
Grace Hartley: We didn't say you must have.
Grace Hartley: attacked issues you know accordingly.
Grace Hartley: It was just one way to help.
Danno Ferrin: Right it's just like come into a meeting and I hear there's an email that I was supposed to be on that apparently I wasn't so it's.
Danno Ferrin: it's a little surprising to find this out on you know a little bit of you know, find this out a few hours ago, I think, would have been better so it's just makes me feel that come out of the live.
Danno Ferrin: Even though basically nothing's changing would be nice to you know understand that.
Hart Montgomery: yeah sorry that's my fault for just.
Hart Montgomery: Not checking all of the email recipients.
Hart Montgomery: But.
Grace Hartley: Though I think the ask, though, to be clear is that we.
Grace Hartley: TIM would like us now to start.
Grace Hartley: Again apologies I missed the email.
Grace Hartley: The ask is for us to now start that Community lead initiative of self identifying or nominating someone else to be eligible for the main maintain our status and so Gary you were saying and or justin sorry.
Grace Hartley: You know, you can self nominate i'll follow up with TIM on what what the email said exactly your heart, if you have in front of you, but we wanted to start nominating for the first period.
Grace Hartley: Is that correct.
Hart Montgomery: Yes, that's correct.
Hart Montgomery: I can read the exact words, if you like.
Hart Montgomery: I.
Gary Schulte: Can you remind me what the first period.
Gary Schulte: date wise comprises.
Hart Montgomery: But it's.
Hart Montgomery: It comprises six months after the.
Hart Montgomery: The merge.
Gary Schulte: OK cool so it's it's triggered by the actual merge.
Okay.
Gary Schulte: So.
Hart Montgomery: yeah so TIM quote from TIM, I think the next step to set these tbd percentages, which are based on the maintainer contributions.
Hart Montgomery: would be to compile the list of eligible contributors on the basic side, I think, for simplicity, it probably makes sense to look at contributions, since the start of this year for this first period and then have it run until withdrawals go live in the first credentials are distributed.
Hart Montgomery: So just starting from this year.
Grace Hartley: So I guess yeah it's not maybe that's why I.
Grace Hartley: pay attention to it it's an urgent ask.
Hart Montgomery: yeah it's not.
Hart Montgomery: it's just like yeah we should.
Hart Montgomery: yeah nothing like I think he apparently you just got the note operator proposal so like this obviously has to follow after that.
Hart Montgomery: So it's not urgent but it's just like.
Hart Montgomery: You know.
Hart Montgomery: I was at the Asian meeting last time and there were some questions over how exactly we wanted to do this.
Hart Montgomery: And I don't think anyone.
Hart Montgomery: cares too much about how it's done as long as it's done and it's done in a way that makes it easy for the ethereum foundation folks to go over the contributions.
Hart Montgomery: So I just was hoping to get feedback.
Hart Montgomery: You know from you all.
Grace Hartley: I think so, is there, someone who wants to take point of.
Grace Hartley: Just helping consolidate that list.
Grace Hartley: or starting to just manage the or I think the ideas and I apologize I haven't read all of agreements in a little while I was poking through them this morning, but not as closely as I have the ideas that they will self nominate by going through.
Grace Hartley: Are we consolidate the list first are we is each person sending it directly to the.
Grace Hartley: rubber.
Hart Montgomery: So the way we agreed, and you actually didn't want to maintain or two to a grace.
Grace Hartley: Yes, I.
Grace Hartley: think we did.
Hart Montgomery: i'm quickly modifying the text like Gray said she would do this.
yeah.
Hart Montgomery: No so.
Hart Montgomery: We are we can change this like this isn't set in stone, but our.
Hart Montgomery: Our plan was for the some hl left staff member to be responsible for creating some kind of like markdown file or something where.
Hart Montgomery: People could add their own contribution, so the idea was that the individuals would be responsible for adding their contributions, but the like orchestration would be done by the staff.
Grace Hartley: yeah okay.
Grace Hartley: that's what I thought I was like.
Grace Hartley: But it's been a few months okay.
Hart Montgomery: So yeah The question is where do you want that file, what do you want that file to be and, like just just those sort of questions or questions for the Community.
Grace Hartley: yeah got it I think my.
Grace Hartley: My winning is very simple and very basic and you can put your name your github handle and like.
Grace Hartley: links to whatever you did you know whether it's an issue, whether it's a proposal, whether you just write in what you did I don't want to like designate like I don't want to make I think are very.
Grace Hartley: I don't know yeah i'm like however folks want to kind of just prove it i'm not i'm not to.
Gary Schulte: Just this is this is for the self nomination process or.
Hart Montgomery: Nomination yes yeah that's right.
Gary Schulte: Okay, so like if you're if you're wanting to just rely on you know get get commit history and tags and things like that, then you don't necessarily need to.
Gary Schulte: have specific entries in this mark down.
Hart Montgomery: Though I think you need to at least put your name there.
Gary Schulte: Okay, so this would be like the.
Gary Schulte: The canonical list of.
Hart Montgomery: yeah this has been made that maintainer list.
Hart Montgomery: So if you are a basic maintainer.
Hart Montgomery: Then you can put your name on this list, and you can you know.
Hart Montgomery: You know, point out your your main net contributions I spoke with Sally the other week about possibly automating this.
Hart Montgomery: But there's likely to be.
Hart Montgomery: You know.
Hart Montgomery: It would be surprised if we could fully automate this just because the the EFF has expressed that they don't want to have to dig through.
Hart Montgomery: That they want to do, essentially the minimum work possible.
Hart Montgomery: And it can sometimes be hard to put contributions in context.
Hart Montgomery: Did that make sense.
Gary Schulte: yeah yeah I just was curious whether this was for the self nomination, or it sounds like it's going to be the entry point for the yes.
Hart Montgomery: yep yeah so that you have is going to come by and basically look at this like once a period.
Hart Montgomery: and decide how to allocate the.
Hart Montgomery: fees basically.
Hart Montgomery: it's all in the document.
Hart Montgomery: If you're curious.
Grace Hartley: It sounds like, no one has strong opinions of you must include this or you must include this type of commit I think itself like.
Grace Hartley: I think, just a very simple template sounds fine and if the staff doesn't mind is pulling together just name repo or the like you know, a template where folks can put their name their.
Grace Hartley: github handle and the links are.
Grace Hartley: The links to their commits I think that's fine.
Hart Montgomery: yeah and and maybe.
Hart Montgomery: So the question is where do we want that, and i'll figure out once we have.
Hart Montgomery: Once we have a location i'll figure out who maintains it and it may be useful to provide some context, like sometimes fixing a tricky bug doesn't you know.
Hart Montgomery: doesn't look like a huge contribution in metrics right.
Danno Ferrin: And sometimes it can contribution what even being a PR to be in someone else's PR.
yeah.
Hart Montgomery: So if you have these kinds of contributions, you may want to list them.
Hart Montgomery: But I mean I doubt.
Hart Montgomery: I doubt there'll be a lot of like borderline cases.
Hart Montgomery: So I think it's it's very clear for like a lot of people that they are.
Hart Montgomery: The net meditators but we just want to get this in place in case we do have you know.
Hart Montgomery: I guess we run into some Gray area cases.
Grace Hartley: I think my only ask is that I think it it only makes sense, given the contributions already in everything here is open source for just being open list on and compete on the wiki.
Hart Montgomery: yeah so.
Like.
Hart Montgomery: Our plan was for it to be an open list.
Hart Montgomery: Do you want it on the wiki or do you want it on github somewhere what.
Grace Hartley: Anyone care.
Matt Nelson: I suggestion is the wiki just to keep it kind of clean and underneath the hyper ledger.
Matt Nelson: umbrella a little more, and the github is already kind of a mess, but i'm open to suggestions.
Justin Florentine: I was weekly leaning towards the wiki as well not not super strong opinion now.
Gary Schulte: I lean towards github weekly just because I don't really like the wiki obviously the I can never really find anything in the hierarchy there and.
Gary Schulte: I think a top level markdown in github would be easier, but it's.
Gary Schulte: weekly held opinion.
Matt Nelson: It can also be both in mind incentivize people to want to be if they're looking at the get to contribute if we mentioned the process and that there is potentially monetary reward tied to it.
Matt Nelson: If we do it on the get directly, but I think we could also do both.
Matt Nelson: it's not a huge lift, especially as the list is small, right now, if we get into a perspective, where we have too many contributors, that we need to manage I think that's a good problem to have and we kind of figured out there.
Grace Hartley: Okay, so.
Grace Hartley: Both for now.
Grace Hartley: I think it's only gonna be like seven people so it's.
Grace Hartley: Okay.
Hart Montgomery: How are we doing duplication if it's both.
Justin Florentine: yeah I don't know that we should design duplication.
Hart Montgomery: yeah.
Matt Nelson: Is there a way for the wiki to pull from the markdown and just display it.
Matt Nelson: On the on the on the page.
Matt Nelson: Like if we did a markdown on github.
Justin Florentine: I have seen that done.
Justin Florentine: I have done that in past lives, like, I could not speak to the current capabilities of hyper ledger is wiki.
Matt Nelson: seems like it would be relatively trivial, but again I don't want to speak to that.
Justin Florentine: By out of band.
Justin Florentine: And then, why don't we just do it in github for now and figure out a way to make it accessible from with the wiki.
Karim T.: yeah.
Grace Hartley: Sorry go ahead.
Hart Montgomery: No, that this is fine, I mean we don't have to immediately do this to this is not a.
Hart Montgomery: This is not something that needs to be done.
Hart Montgomery: immediately.
Hart Montgomery: I don't know if it's possible to pull.
Hart Montgomery: From github on the wiki i'll ask i'm not a wiki expert, by any stretch of the imagination.
Hart Montgomery: There might be possible, in theory, it should be possible, but you just never know if these things.
Grace Hartley: Okay, why do we have a tentative plan and housing on github link linking or having at least be fundable, on the wiki is great, and everyone will self.
Grace Hartley: Besides that, I think we can keep moving just because we have a big agenda.
Grace Hartley: Release updates looks like jason's next for.
Grace Hartley: Any comments or questions on the releases.
Danno Ferrin: people think of this last session, where we just did everything straight off a master branch good bad do it again do it again.
Justin Florentine: I like that.
Gary Schulte: yep was great.
Danno Ferrin: Okay, for 22 seven, then I would propose we do the same thing, where the RC is replaced the weeklies and we just keep going off of master it really simplifies development.
Justin Florentine: I get behind that.
jiri: I haven't been any studies like kind of risky to just do directly put into this shadow folks and stop when should I do with that then.
jiri: Today, and I would like to have some I don't know i'm just curious like nobody minds, if I just put it into master and something breaks for people then and then i'm not.
jiri: Too much against it, but like I don't.
jiri: understand what I mean.
Danno Ferrin: So we're.
Danno Ferrin: Growing right we don't we haven't had beta builds or branch builds except for the merge for most of the history of base you.
Danno Ferrin: we've been trying to keep a master everything builds everything runs correctly.
Danno Ferrin: For a long time because we got you know the reference tests, a huge suite of acceptance tests, so, in theory, any known break it should happen immediately.
Danno Ferrin: But that's also the reason why we have the quarterly beta releases with RC releases were things that we know that are risky and high risk.
Danno Ferrin: I traditionally waited to put big things like that, like the vm refactoring and the switch from gas too long.
Danno Ferrin: i've waited for those to go into like the RC one or the RC two releases, so we get a couple of months, not a couple of months, a couple of weeks.
Danno Ferrin: of an appropriately labeled build that says hey this might break on you, you know it's an RC or it's a beta you shouldn't expect production quality out of it, although we think its production quality.
Danno Ferrin: We put some risky things and so that kind of has been the philosophy we have for a while, if there is a different philosophy we should go to i'm all for it, we just probably need to formalize it so everyone is on the same page.
jiri: So Should I be aware of a from which built, we are building towards or something that that's what we're saying.
Danno Ferrin: right when you have like a something that's going to break backwards compatibility or something that's a high risk change.
Danno Ferrin: um we've been holding off until the quarterly releases to have the first drop of it so you'd have a PR it might go on for a long time, and then, when we start doing the beta builds it gets merged first, so we have a lot more long.
Danno Ferrin: build time that's also when we've been trying to do our major.
Danno Ferrin: Dependency upgrades we've kind of you know, fallen off the wagon with the we don't have a formal policy or anyone tasked with making sure that happens, or anything on a checklist.
Danno Ferrin: But that's also in the past when we've been adding you know all our major upgrades because you'll be surprised at what dependencies.
Danno Ferrin: No one's really good with some very version, they say they are, but when it comes when the rubber hits the road there's always things that break because we might have been depending on a bug so that's part of the reason why we.
Danno Ferrin: We would upgrade security related ones as needed and we would do bulk upgrades on the quarter is kind of you know, the quarterly releases.
Danno Ferrin: To do that, so.
jiri: Okay i'm just a little bit worried that.
jiri: keeping my fingers for later might first issue, some other one in some other way Okay, I would like to integrate with if anybody else has similar things like port quarterly release or something I would like to integrate sooner rather than later anyways anyways as an example.
Karim T.: But your feature it's experimental feature or something.
jiri: So i'm working on these backlighting things, and when I change something and.
jiri: You know I don't want to depress people by breaking something that what he was working before or why are we moving with using we've already said, oh faults.
jiri: So, ideally, if I would like you to always have the newest build and my own built with with that think in parallel to see whether I didn't break something from the next gen four or whatever.
jiri: But that's like just in my head, so I was just thinking, how can I do it in a way that I don't disappoint people.
jiri: I don't know if that explains this change.
Karim T.: Anything yes, yes.
Danno Ferrin: it's mostly getting used to acceptable levels of risk um yeah I agree that's it's hard to manage it's hard to balance and there's.
Danno Ferrin: You know you don't want to break other people's work but at some point it's gonna have to merge and you'll find out one way or the other testing supposed to address this, but none of us are as clever as as the people finding the box so it's it's always a challenge.
Gary Schulte: there's also some middle ground, especially with the shadow forks in this case theory is that we can.
Gary Schulte: Do do these snapshot builds off of a branch that's not necessarily been merged in domain and participate in the shadow fork with those and give some additional confidence in the changes before we merge domain.
Okay, thank you.
Grace Hartley: cool.
Grace Hartley: that's good feedback.
Grace Hartley: interest of time just moving along or any final release commentary.
Grace Hartley: cool work up the verge update.
Grace Hartley: Who would like to speak to this, I think, mostly everyone's on the same page.
Gary Schulte: And you can see merge.
Gary Schulte: merge is coming along nicely there is.
Gary Schulte: tentatively, we would like to get in the 22 for dot one release.
Gary Schulte: The next release of that merge configurations in terminal total difficulty for robson.
Gary Schulte: there's some outstanding work that we have to make sure that we're passing the hive to test suite.
Gary Schulte: we've got some additional sort of soft criteria that we want to have before we have a robson specific merge release we are just mostly regarding.
Gary Schulte: Specific behavior with the latest valid hash and, like our sink cases when we start singing prior to tdd terminal total difficulty.
Gary Schulte: And finished sync pivot past terminal total difficulty and just making sure it since the merge complicates a lot of the six situations we want to make sure that we.
Gary Schulte: singing crossing tdd and sinking post tdd are solid before we bake that into a release but that's pretty much where the the merge statuses right now we're looking towards this next release supporting at least the merge of robson.
Grace Hartley: cool that's exciting any questions.
Justin Florentine: there's also a main net shadow for for on Thursday.
Justin Florentine: Just a heads up.
Grace Hartley: awesome.
Grace Hartley: Kareem any update was thinking particular.
Karim T.: um yes more dangerous.
Karim T.: To say we melt Susan obscene cons main branch it says reasons or last released so.
Karim T.: 24 dot zero and we did some benchmarks, we have good results.
Karim T.: With not we are working on the block to to specify, although, as a result, we have, and just to summarize summarize it, we have, for example, we reduce the time of the world states, thanks to snap seeing.
Karim T.: On your leaf on four hours to one hours on galley and on main at it from one days and 20 worlds to six our worlds and a half, something like that so it's improving the world stage part and we still have some students and blocking port but thats related to snap sync.
Karim T.: And some user started to use snap thing, so we found some small issues, but nothing important, so we are trying to fix that.
Grace Hartley: And it's all feedback is good.
Grace Hartley: that's a good thing.
Grace Hartley: Good it's someone is actually using it that's where we want.
Karim T.: To have it good job cream.
Danno Ferrin: Congratulations thanks.
Gary Schulte: yeah congrats that's it was a tall order.
Grace Hartley: awesome that's exciting.
Grace Hartley: Next up automate security bots I think we did this last time we don't have any high.
Grace Hartley: Priority request correct.
Danno Ferrin: We don't even have a unique requests.
yeah.
Grace Hartley: yeah.
Grace Hartley: I figured next one, the debugging issue justin is there any other updates here that you want to share.
Justin Florentine: I think this is okay, since we switched from debbie into ubuntu we have much better access to jd case, and so the debug image I just need to update it from using a Jerry to a jdk so it has the tools that we need on there.
Justin Florentine: So I think we're good on that see constructed from the agenda for.
Gary Schulte: Related to that, since it is doctor related, we are now building multi arch docker images.
Gary Schulte: So the basic hyper ledger basically images should have amd 64 and arm 64 multi arch builds I think there's there's currently an outstanding problem with the develop multi arch build but i'm gonna see if I can sort that out shortly, but that's been a long, long a long time coming.
Grace Hartley: what's up.
Grace Hartley: Oh good things.
Grace Hartley: So I think this is, I believe this is new around the code containers and non code maintainer proposal.
Grace Hartley: Who is the right person to speak to this.
Justin Florentine: Go yeah go ahead, no, I was just kind of organizing the communication on this, it was something that we talked about in the past.
Justin Florentine: And I know that I set up a separate group and get hub, so that we can provide project managers and.
Justin Florentine: You know other other folks that are interested in prioritizing and road mapping and milestones and all that fun stuff get them the access that they need to it, so I think this kind of just codifies that.
Danno Ferrin: puts it into a document so.
Justin Florentine: We can vote the same way we vote on everything else, and the details on how to do that are outlined in our existing process for onboarding new members and awarding them rights and get up.
Justin Florentine: So I don't know that we need to discuss it a different approval process, because the existing one does cover this case and I believe there's already been.
Justin Florentine: A separate section added to the maintainer that defines these people as non code maintainer.
Danno Ferrin: So that's also glossing over what happened in 3790 were asked, we need this process and the PR was removed, and there were some open questions, but I don't think we're resolved.
Danno Ferrin: One of them is it does that group with triage is that have the rights that they need when never heard back on that is that route actually working does.
Danno Ferrin: He was a that we had back in a.
Danno Ferrin: growing up my page, where I had these.
Danno Ferrin: Group is a page I had this 3790 or 30 530-359-3359 when we're looking to get Ryan Jones and we put them in a different group, but those permissions are those permissions sufficient can he do his job.
Justin Florentine: I don't know.
Danno Ferrin: So um, we need to answer that question because that's going to be the permission, that the non code maintenance would get.
Danno Ferrin: So that's that's an open question and I guess the next thing would be you know when when this was decided to be closed three months ago, back in February, I want to know what what changed, why is this, why are we, you know.
Danno Ferrin: What what's what's what's substantially different from it so that's my my main ask.
Justin Florentine: My understanding is that it was closed because we were providing a separate tier of users there.
Danno Ferrin: right but.
Danno Ferrin: So it was a proposal is to add him as a non code maintainer and then ask the questions with the Chico changes be sufficient, and then.
Danno Ferrin: Okay, so this is the this one when did this going.
Danno Ferrin: This was an edit to the main tanners list.
Justin Florentine: Right, this is, if you click on the files change, you can see there's just it's just making a separate section for the two people that were already.
Justin Florentine: on that list Madeline and Saturday, I believe.
Danno Ferrin: right but.
Danno Ferrin: The vibe I got from the from the James things that we were going to stop having this category and we were just going to give him the rights as needed.
Danno Ferrin: Just to move it and if the triage was going to be sufficient So the first thing I would want to know is, is triage sufficient is it working, and I think that's actually the most important question above should we have not good maintenance or not.
Matt Nelson: yeah so I could I could speak to this a little bit I was trying to like currently can't log into my.
Matt Nelson: Get incentive for some reason, so that's another issue, but the other day, when I tested the permissions, of the one group with rive it's it seems sufficient to be able to triage like label, create new issues and, like move stuff around.
Matt Nelson: But, again, I, I want to confirm that, right now, but I just seemingly can't login.
Helen George: yeah.
Helen George: i'm Helen I was requesting a church role before, and it was sufficient to be added to that team to be able to do the things that I wanted to do.
Danno Ferrin: Okay, so um that's great that's good news actually if the triage group is providing the work we need um.
Danno Ferrin: Do we need a heavyweight process to add remove people from that list I guess is my next question.
Danno Ferrin: Because this having a vote and having to have two weeks out there and then having to have a vote to take people off when they move on to other projects that seems fairly heavyweight for for what's going on here um is it doing need to be this heavyweight.
Helen George: From my perspective, my opinion is that we won't need it, I think, having it just being added to the triage team was sufficient so i'll be for not having a heavy process for it.
Danno Ferrin: Okay.
Danno Ferrin: i'm more of a lighter weight process more of a hey i'm working with this team, the team says yes they're working with me that's something I would support.
Helen George: I would agree with that.
Matt Nelson: yeah and I can also confirm I just got got logged into my permissions are working correctly, so the group should at least be sufficient to to get it done what we need.
Danno Ferrin: Okay.
Grace Hartley: um.
Danno Ferrin: cool.
Grace Hartley: So part of my ignorance so there's a triage group permission there's a maintainer level permission, obviously I know what the maintainer process is we're saying that.
Grace Hartley: Are we So are we saying we no longer need.
Grace Hartley: What we used to get like, for example, we gave DJ maintain or access what he was a pm.
Grace Hartley: And now, and TIM gay so we're saying.
Grace Hartley: it's no longer required.
Danno Ferrin: Right.
Grace Hartley: we're just gonna give triage access networks and there's no non code.
Grace Hartley: And right maintainer status.
Danno Ferrin: right that will we put it, a different name or whatever, but we don't think we need to have, I think processes to heavyweight.
Danno Ferrin: I guess we've been my thing, but it was different than was triage level wasn't working with them hub they required right access and they were acquired the access level that allows you to press the merge button and that does need to heavyweight process but.
Danno Ferrin: You have pushed the merge button um I don't I feel like the heavyweight process is going to cause too much friction in getting people's work done.
Danno Ferrin: So we could we could rename it or do whatever but i'm.
Danno Ferrin: i'm satisfied giving triage to people who work with our teams, without having to go through a formal process involving voting.
Matt Nelson: I can did.
Danno Ferrin: yeah.
Grace Hartley: I mean I don't anyone have.
Grace Hartley: So basically maintain or access, you can hit merge.
Grace Hartley: triage access, you can.
Grace Hartley: So no process required get triage access as requested, basically.
Danno Ferrin: So social process required not.
Grace Hartley: Okay.
Grace Hartley: cool cool cool.
Grace Hartley: Any objections or comments that things that I I wasn't clear on the nuances myself so that was helpful for me.
Gary Schulte: Historically, is there any other.
Gary Schulte: You know, besides merging is there anything else that.
Gary Schulte: i'm a PM role would would need.
Gary Schulte: Like a triage role would need because it doesn't seem terribly.
Gary Schulte: In a pressing to be able to hit the merge button so just wonder if there's anything else that was causing prayer like bj or attempt to need maintainer access.
Danno Ferrin: Then hub wouldn't let you even login unless you have write access to you couldn't move stuff around you couldn't use then have they fixed their permission issues in the last year, it looks like.
Oh.
Danno Ferrin: cool.
Gary Schulte: yeah no objection sounds great.
Grace Hartley: cool.
Grace Hartley: that's exciting what problems are solved.
Grace Hartley: sounds good, Francesco just make sure to just kind of capture that knows when you get a SEC, because I think that's helpful.
Grace Hartley: Next security audit update so.
Grace Hartley: I just this was me, I had a question I know we've had we had some conversations about going through a security on it with.
Grace Hartley: To form and I just didn't know what latest was or if they had started or what their current timeline was I know we wanted to be the only for the first.
Grace Hartley: First, or and or only client to go through consensus client to go through a security audit prior to the merge so just was curious where we were.
Danno Ferrin: So one thing they need is a survey filled out and I don't know enough the details about the merge ports and everything else that up to I think sufficiently fill it out that's one thing they need from the developers, but other than that they're trying to get stuff started so.
Danno Ferrin: No clear information on the timeline once we get the information on the ports needed for.
Danno Ferrin: For merge access margin what's, what do you call you know call it the merge poor woody, what do you call it.
Gary Schulte: Engine X.
Danno Ferrin: ethan did, yes, the ethan's import so once we get the information on that I think they can get it slotted in and scheduled.
Justin Florentine: it's actually.
Justin Florentine: Changing at the moment.
Justin Florentine: So, but yeah that's no problem, we can get them that, as soon as possible.
Gary Schulte: So did you already start a.
Gary Schulte: The questionnaire.
Gary Schulte: response DEMO and we can feel that energy want us to start from scratch, and then we can socialize the answers.
Danno Ferrin: I think we should start from scratch, I got a brief look at it, and then I got to look at my work deadline timeline last week and I kind of freaked out so Luckily, the deadlines past, so I can get some more time on it.
Gary Schulte: Okay, we can we can add that to the to the list of things to do as soon i'm pretty I think I saw recently the last heir to the questionnaire come through so we can get a start on that and then just maybe.
Gary Schulte: communicate that via the Channel and make sure that everybody is in agreement on the answers.
Grace Hartley: awesome.
Grace Hartley: sounds good to me.
Grace Hartley: Thanks appreciate the update on that I wasn't actually sure.
Grace Hartley: last item here this section later experience with a Su man, I know you kind of want to add this to the agenda.
Matt Nelson: Is for just a brief point and as career mentioned it's kind of it's relating to work that we're already doing ongoing.
Matt Nelson: But we're looking at how we kind of are going to start prioritizing post merge kind of features and and development roadmaps.
Matt Nelson: So you know I, personally, I think that it's It makes sense, given some of our users and customers to look at the validator experience and you know put some of our energy there.
Matt Nelson: But I wanted to, of course, bring it up with this group to see thoughts and concerns and.
Matt Nelson: discuss kind of what that looks like but right now it's mostly around basically making sure that we're getting the right attention usage of our already existing features around things like bonsai instead of saying.
Matt Nelson: And kind of positioning base, who is very performant and you know kind of robust when it comes to that validator stack on the Net, but again, it was mostly just a means to bring it up to discussion and see if anyone had any other issues, against this kind of direction.
Matt Nelson: But yeah it's kind of my point.
Matt Nelson: It sounds it's golden so that's.
Gary Schulte: that's yeah I mean the more the more exposure we get.
Gary Schulte: I think the more noise, you make about the basically as a execution engine and emerge, I think the better, especially when we can help those features that are differentiating.
jiri: So do we want to already advertisers is the most performant or something or do you want to first before we do that.
Matt Nelson: Well, I want to make sure that we can not lie right so we're we're we're working on those i'm working on the pieces now to talk through some of the things like with with snap sinking with bonds i've you know we are more performant in some areas, not necessarily the most performance.
Matt Nelson: But you know with with your work area around backwards thinking and thinking through kind of some novel approaches, I think we'll have more ground to stand on but.
Matt Nelson: yeah, I just wanted, you know this is this is mostly to validate the approach, and I think that we have kind of what we need to go forward.
Hart Montgomery: So i'll jump in here and say, if you want to do some kind of like advertising or promotion campaign or anything like that i'd encourage you to mail the car architects David boswell does a lot of stuff with this, so you may want to.
Hart Montgomery: may want to talk to him about it.
Matt Nelson: awesome.
Matt Nelson: i'll write that down and take a note.
Grace Hartley: Already.
Grace Hartley: 12 minutes left, I think.
Grace Hartley: i'm going to propose we skip the insights time and maybe just look at the roadmap.
Grace Hartley: Any objections.
Justin Florentine: love it.
Grace Hartley: let's see.
Grace Hartley: So just be clear matt looks like this is the latest and greatest.
Grace Hartley: is up to 22.4 that we want to talk to just 22.7.
Matt Nelson: yeah so I mean we again we haven't really we've been kind of in a whirlwind process of looking at this actual road mapping, so I would suggest, I would say that the 22 dot four items, some of them are probably pushed down a little bit.
Matt Nelson: But you know, like we have bonsai of course snap sync and the lot of the client enhancements are either in progress, or are being pushed in kind of now.
Matt Nelson: That movie stuff we've thought were thinking it through, but it's it's kind of lower priority in terms of being focused around the merge and making sure that we're merged compliant and participating appropriately in the test that's.
Matt Nelson: Also, the spec is kind of in flux with regards to the entire Community, so that one is a little bit.
Matt Nelson: I mean this roadmap item is correct, we are exploring the options for supporting it, maybe, but we do not have a way forward, yet and it's kind of still in progress, and if you go down on 22 seven.
Matt Nelson: yeah so it's still these are still kind of have some of our open items here of course working on the merge, as usual, seeing how we can support roll ups more broadly.
Matt Nelson: around you know general program ability for repurchasing some api's in order to better support different roll ups frameworks.
Matt Nelson: So we have ways forward on this it's more a matter of when do we want to kind of prioritize this and and get you know feedback from everybody on what's the approach should be to reduce.
Matt Nelson: Possible introductions of regressions or issues with regards to the merge, so it the timelines on these are a little bit in flux, but it's mostly around you know how do we prioritize.
Matt Nelson: again being merged compliant with some of these other things like like MTV like roll up support and then of course the ever looming Shanghai for.
Matt Nelson: So it's a matter of timelines and I think that the merge timelines says are starting to kind of solidify but there's no official.
Matt Nelson: date yet so as we know a little more about that will be able to kind of rework some of these roadmap items i'd say bye for now they're they're pretty much notional on the next quarterly release focusing on the merge at the top.
Matt Nelson: would be my would be my suggestion, so I can go in, at some point to that effect once I know a little bit more, and then clean this up with with some feedback and comments and see what people have to say.
Grace Hartley: cool that sounds good.
Grace Hartley: Any comments or questions.
Danno Ferrin: Any clarity on what optimistic support would mean would we have a roll up to to run from basic we joined and other roll ups.
Matt Nelson: yeah so.
Danno Ferrin: I understand that road communities are all single client so far.
Matt Nelson: yeah so pretty much everything as far as main is concerned is running on guests.
Matt Nelson: We have to kind of I have to engage a little bit more with those groups and see what the desire is for client diversity, because you know, in the ecosystem, the client diversity issues is no longer just a problem for layer one it's kind of permeating everywhere.
Matt Nelson: So you know I want to understand the requirements of these other roll ups, a little bit better and then of course there's you know some changes that we can make kind of in the short term around roll ups, you know products kind of.
Matt Nelson: To maybe say provide more api's essentially to allow them to do specific things.
Matt Nelson: Around program ability and block production that are a little bit more unique that could help with some of these optimistic roll ups use cases.
Matt Nelson: So just doing an exploration not committing to anything quite yet and just really need to understand the requirements little bit better.
Matt Nelson: But there have been discussions around kind of roll up client diversity and how can be soo slotted to those plans more efficiently.
Matt Nelson: And if that's providing a new set of api's that allow roll ups themselves to interact with the execution engine in a little bit different way, I think that as long as it's merged safe.
Matt Nelson: it's appropriate to explore, but we.
Matt Nelson: Again, are just prioritizing the merge stuff and we don't want to mess, with the merge api's kind of in flight, because a lot of the roll ups are looking to take advantage of those merge API changes, and we have some PR is already around.
Matt Nelson: You know roll up stuff like that so that's that's what we're looking at.
Matt Nelson: But that the timeline is a little bit dependent upon final like you know the the merge API spec being completed, and all that stuff.
Matt Nelson: In any changes that might come there between now and the end of the end of the the end of the year.
Danno Ferrin: I have a lot of thoughts on this, but seven minutes is too short, so yeah Ping me later.
All right.
Grace Hartley: Well, I.
Grace Hartley: Think we're an open forum.
Gary Schulte: develops Countess made net.
Sorry, what.
Gary Schulte: Half joking.
Gary Schulte: roll up work out this magnet.
Danno Ferrin: i'm not certain, how much you joking on that because roll ups, is the official scalability planet seems.
Danno Ferrin: charting and the bigger issues have to do with things like the sequencers and a special privilege access and it's layer two is a deep deep well I had some exposure to it, it read it and it's come a lot of sense i'm over the last six months since i've left to read it it's.
Danno Ferrin: up and optimism arbitrage really you know switching around with Nigel completely rebooting everything they're doing it's it's a confusing space.
Matt Nelson: yeah so definitely exploratory right now there's no reason to to go down these paths until I, we have a better understanding of what.
Matt Nelson: is needed and what's like like I said it's merge merge safety is kind of the priority so we're not you know.
Matt Nelson: they've there's already been expressed interest in altering some of those api's So the question is, what does that look like.
Matt Nelson: Would we just we could could we create a new set of roll up specific api's and would that even be valuable so there's more exploration to be done there from you know customer and user perspective and.
Matt Nelson: And you know, not a lot of time to do it right now so that's why it's tentatively, I would even say in the roadmap it's probably a little farther down than the next quarterly release but.
Matt Nelson: just have to there's there's some moving pieces there.
Grace Hartley: Already.
Grace Hartley: open forum.
Grace Hartley: Anything else anyone wants to bring up Diego had to leave.
Grace Hartley: I believe we've done some some discord meetups correct me if i'm wrong.
Grace Hartley: Anything else anyone wants to bring up or give everyone five minutes back four minutes.
Grace Hartley: Alright i'm back I think there's a really productive appreciate everyone's time here we'll see you again soon.
Karim T.: Thanks thanks.
guys.